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Post by djlamar2 on Nov 18, 2014 15:06:41 GMT -8
Well first of all a villain should never be easy to beat. Take king sombra for example. Yes he's seen in parts 1 and 2 of "The Crystal Empire" but he was beaten way too easily. Nightmare moon, Discord and Tirek it took them 2 episodes just to beat them. Secondly they must be menacing. Okay one bad example of this is Porcina's followers. They were the true villains but they weren't menacing. Tyrak, Grogar, nightmare moon, Discord, King Sombra and Tirek were menacing. Finally they must provide a way to be antagonists. They must make things hard for the heroes. Take Discord for example. What did he do? He took the mane six's flight and unicorn magic away and reversed their elements. Now that's being an antagonist.
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Post by sunstar on Nov 19, 2014 0:08:12 GMT -8
I agree on all accounts. A good villian should not be easy to beat ether. A villian I had trouble with in video games was Copy X. I had his first form down to a science. I struggled with his second and final form for three months before I finally suceeded. I like my villians tough, dark, evil, and impressive.
Dark Sunstar is a good example of a top villian. A close friend, Deathstar, God of Death, found out about the darkness growing inside Sunstar. He threw himself into finding a cure. After a ton of research, he figured out a cure. Taking the best atributes from Sunstars fellow Guardians and close friends, he worked on a way to use them to cancel out the darkness inside of Sunstar. Those atributes are known today as the Elements of Harmony. Deathstar found a way to crystalize the atributes, but the crystallization would take 1500 years to complete. Sadly, Sunstar fell to the darkness inside of her.She went on a destructive rampage, forcing the remaining flutter ponies into her changeling minions. The guardians fought her, but Bryon, Galaxy, Bloodstone, and Milky-Way died in the fighting. Bryon lost his life in spellfire, Galaxy revealed her true form but was overwhelmed, and Milky-Way sacrificed herself to heal the Source of Magic. Bloodstone tried to reason with Sunstar, his daughter, but was killed by Sunstar impaling him on her horn. Grogar realized that Sunstar could not be stopped without the Elements so he came up with a plan. Sunstar was sent tumbling into Tambelon after a long battle against Battlefield. She was sent to the realm of darkness. The survivors banded together with Mage and Andromeda as their leaders. Their land was destroyed and 65% of all life went extinct when Sunstar destroyed the Flow. During what became known as the Exodus, Mage and Andromeda adopted a small black unicorn colt with red and black hair. The survivors traveled across the frozen north and down to the place that would become known as the Blue Manor. Sunstar had destroyed the Moon and damaged the sun. Mage used his power to take a part of the sun and craft it into a moon. The remains of the sun were crafted into a new smaller sun. It was discovered that their planet nolonger rotated. Sunstar's destructive rampage had damaged the planet to the point that it stopped moving. Two of Sunstar's children, Celestia and Luna, were given the task to move the sun and moon. Celestia's twin, Aries, was given domain over the tides. The Pegasi were taught how to create and control the weather while earthlings were given domain over the land. Unicorns were given domain over magic. Over time, Equestria and the Crystal Empire rose. Mage and Andromeda passed away, sending their adoptive son into the downward spiral that would lead him down a dark path. Sombra tried to bring his parents back through necromancy but failed.
Over time, the population recovered. 500 years later, Sunstar returned in Tambelon but was sent back by Luna ringing the bell of liberty. Nightmare moon happened. Discord happened. Nightmare Mars happened. Sunstar returned 500 years later, bringing about the fall of the third generation. Celestia rang the bell, sending her back. 500 years later, after both Luna and Aries returned, Sunstar returned, and the bell was shattered. The main six brought the elements at her, but failed. Discord realized what went wrong and helped the main six realize they were the elements, not the crown or necklaces, and that they need true harmony to defeat Sunstar. For the first time ever, Chaos and Harmony flowed together as one. The healed Sunstar at last. Sunstar currently lives in a station on the edge of the atmosphere, working to fix her mistakes and heal the planet.
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Al1701
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Post by Al1701 on Dec 8, 2014 11:00:24 GMT -8
To me there are three kinds of villains.
There's the comedic villains who are from the get go meant to be ineffectual, but they're there to be entertaining more than as a legitimate threat. Though, they could run into circumstances that could make them a more credible threat. These villains are best in either off the wall media where the comedy is more important than anything. That means you concentrate more on the humor and entertainment value.
There's tragic villains who are once good people or even potentially good people that the stars have aligned for them to follow the evil path. You feel for these figures as perhaps different circumstances would have prevented this. They also have to show a sense of humanity as well as loss from what they have become. These are typically side villains or part of a larger rogue's gallery as too much focus can dilute their impact.
Then you have the truly evil villains. They are out make the protagonists or even innocent bystanders suffer and enjoy every minute of it. The users are the worst as they manipulate people into doing their dirty work. Obviously any main villain of a serious story must fall under this category.
Then there are the antagonists who aren't villains. They stand in the way of the protagonists, but not for villainous reasons. They might serve the role of a main villain in a story that's more about the gray areas where good and evil aren't as well defined.
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Post by Nic the Lucky Unicorn on Dec 10, 2014 7:20:45 GMT -8
I'm inclined to agree with Al's thoughts. The type of villain used should be appropriate for the type of story being told. Then there are the antagonists who aren't villains. They stand in the way of the protagonists, but not for villainous reasons. They might serve the role of a main villain in a story that's more about the gray areas where good and evil aren't as well defined. Agreed. Personally, I find it weird when people list characters like Diamond Tiara and Prince Blueblood as villains. They're antagonistic, yeah (Diamond Tiara especially), but I'd never call them out-and-put villains.
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Post by djlamar2 on Dec 10, 2014 10:13:07 GMT -8
Yeah I agree on prince blueblood and diamond tiara not being villains. They're pain in the butts but not villains
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Post by sunstar on Dec 10, 2014 22:23:50 GMT -8
They are totally not villians.
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Al1701
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Post by Al1701 on Dec 11, 2014 6:33:20 GMT -8
I think Diamond Tiara moved towards villain territory in Flight to the Finish. She was actively trying to find a way to torment the CMC beyond teasing them with about their lack of cutie marks.
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Post by djlamar2 on Dec 11, 2014 18:25:03 GMT -8
Let me give you an example of a good villain. If anyone watched DBZ you know what I'm talking about. In DBZ there's been quite a few main villains. Frieza, Cell, Baby, omega shenron. (Not including the movie villains or miniseries villains) But there was one villain who looked weak from the start. Majin Buu. Sure he didn't seem scary at first till Super Buu appeared. Then when he became kid Buu he destroyed the earth with one big energy bomb. Did the other villains do that? No. They spent most of their time gloating. Yes Frieza destroyed Namek but he didn't do it right away and only did it to where they had five minutes to get off. Cell almost succeeded in doing this by self destructing but this is only after he knee he was no match for Gohan. Kid Buu didn't gloat he just did it. Also I agree there are different types of villains
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Al1701
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Post by Al1701 on Dec 12, 2014 4:35:21 GMT -8
Kid Buu was a crazy psychopath. It was like he felt nothing but an impulse to destroy. Perhaps the original intention of his creator.
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Post by Nic the Lucky Unicorn on Dec 12, 2014 8:34:39 GMT -8
I think Diamond Tiara moved towards villain territory in Flight to the Finish. She was actively trying to find a way to torment the CMC beyond teasing them with about their lack of cutie marks. I might be alone in this sentiment, but I feel like they really need to do something else with Diamond Tiara. It seems like she literally has no life beyond harassing the CMC. God knows I can't stand bullies, including fictional ones, but it's like she has nothing else to to do with her time. I don't even like Diamond and I agree with the people who say her "lol blank flanks" routine is old. The CMC don't really even seem to care much anymore. I've never watched DBZ before, but villains who actually take action instead of sitting around talking are more effective. Even though I don't like this particular character either and can't stand the vast majority of her fanbase, I always thought Demona from Gargoyles was a good villain. The source of her own misery and too wrapped up in her blind hatred to realize this.
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